I started my career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- A convenient mistake? Lennard Zinn, our longtime technical writer, joined VeloNews in 1987. After a first look, I can not see any visible cracks or something. There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. We inspected it and found no damage beyond some chipped paint. Also, the competitor publishes that it’s the American Standard for Non Destructive Testing (as shown in attached screenshot). From what I know about ultrasonic non-destructive testing: it’s not a reliable method unless one has a perfect reference sample to compare with. Two bike mechanics and me huddled around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike. Get 15% Off Membership →, New Year, Fitter You. There is no other visible structural damage. Will it be a go or no-go? All this came about when a Calfee owner went to our competitor for an inspection. Appleman Bicycles can repair your damaged, broken, busted, or cracked carbon fiber frame. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Can there even be some cracks you do not see? First, I … Get the latest race news, results, commentary, and tech, delivered to your inbox. Before we talk about repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a .Is my carbon frame cracked. Technical FAQ: Will frequent indoor riding damage a carbon frame? Get 15% Off Membership →, Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists, Technical FAQ: Fixing front-end shimmy, and SRAM battery woes. Do the same at a similar location that doesn't have a crack. Another aspect that makes it difficult on bikes is that you really need to soak out the area in question for a period at a specific temperature for proper penetration. But UV dyes make for some very compelling images! The conventional wisdom in cycling has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh, while carbon is compliant and smooth. A normal “tap” sound will become a dull thud when the carbon is broken. The end result is a stronger bicycle frame than the original build at a negligible weight gain. If a jet engine is bolted to the equator, does the Earth speed up? Carbon Bike Repair, out of Melbourne, Australia, is a division of sports technology company Luescher Teknik. A better look at the hole. There are also many types of dyes out there. If your wife requests intimacy in a niddah state, may you refuse? But sometimes it is not possible. It was true 20 years ago when aluminum frames were unrefined and still being built using traditional designs. This is where carbon can be easier to repair than metal. Not great news but much better than buying a new frame. In most cases, it is possible to have a carbon bike frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money in the long run. I have no idea what caused it -- I've never crashed, I haven't dropped the bike or knocked it over or dropped anything on it. If there are any differences in sound, the frame has probably sustained damage. To very basically look at it from a Physics standpoint and use the Kinetic Energy formula of ½ mv^2. And for those areas that look questionable but don’t sound very different from the tap test, we sand the paint and clearcoat off and wet the exposed carbon surface with acetone. Founder, Broken Carbon. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. I am buying a bike and saw what appears to be a line in it. Thanks for contributing an answer to Bicycles Stack Exchange! If you can't feel it with a fingernail, the crack probably isn't in the carbon. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Carbon does not develop small cracks which could fail later like a steel or alloy frame might, by nature of it being a composite material. —Chris, Dear Chris, Why are good absorbers also good emitters? “Great question and a surprisingly common scenario. How after a month they no longer lock, and, unless if they’re lubed regularly, they get really stiff and don’t clamp properly. I takes a bit to fracture a carbon. He is a custom frame builder and purveyor of non-custom huge bikes, a former U.S. national team rider, co-author of The Haywire Heart, and author of many bicycle books including Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance (DVD), as well as Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes and Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists. It’s true, most of the cycling industry’s carbon-fiber products do come from Taiwan, and sometimes China. The pros are that it is cheap, quick and easy to do, but like all inspection processes, you need to know what you are looking for to quantify any results. Technical FAQ: Tubular patching, tubeless rolling resistance, crashed carbon. Maximum useful resolution for scanning 35mm film. From Calfee Design: Still, looks … Based on our many fluorescent penetrant dye tests over the years, we have found it is a helpful tool but limited in scope. “We have been using fluorescent penetrant dye for about 8 years out here. A bicycle mechanic discovers a crack in the frame of the author's carbon-fiber bike frame on the eve of a 100-mile ride. What was the first microprocessor to overlap loads with ALU ops? A normal frame should have a full sound when you tap it. . What is a "Major Component Failure" referred to in news reports about the unsuccessful Space Launch System core stage test firing? If no one was hurt then you are probably good. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete. Shawn Small Like all forms of non-destructive testing, there are pros and cons and limits on usefulness. Furthermore, competitor claims to be certified by the ASNT Level II. ― Lennard. Another trick is to whack the tube with a quarter over and around the crack. The wheels. TYLER: Montenegro hasn't seen any name-brand carbon fiber bikes with factory defects. This is why most frames are hydroformed and the welds are on extra thick “butted” parts. An x-ray technician recently told me that fluorescent penetrant inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber parts for defects. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites, Dear Lennard, New Year, Fitter You. Why is it so hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity? “Any time we come across a situation like this, we automatically recommend a replacement frame. Carbon fibres are not what you think. It just seems that way. (m=25 lbs v=65 mph) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere. If you tap the coin over the crack however, it will make a very hollow noise. Get 15% Off Membership → But ASNT is actually the American Society of Non Destructive Testing. The more wraps and resin, the stronger. MONTENEGRO: When it's broken, it sounds a little flat. Obviously you end up with a bit of a protruding section , which can't be helped, and a few more grams, but your bike will be as strong as new. Are the longest German and Turkish words really single words? Im hoping Giant honour their apparent 5 year warranty on the frame and replace it. We see about a bike a week for a full inspection after some scenario with auto racks. Masking. And that’s only with sophisticated (expensive) equipment. Breaking or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist's worst nightmare! Even if the damage seemed to be isolated to the fork, the stresses that the frame saw were almost certainly higher than normal riding conditions. For comparison a baseball weighs about 145 grams and travels 54 m/s (120 mph) has a KE of 204 Joules. I'm wondering how many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks. Create a personalized feed and bookmark your favorites. Not feeling confident of that evaluation, he sent us the frame. Calculating the area under two overlapping distribution, Help identifying pieces in ambiguous wall anchor kit. Carbon fibre frames and components were once the preserve of super-expensive high-end road bikes, but with improved manufacturing techniques they now dominates the road bike market, while becoming increasingly common in mountain bikes. When we first check a carbon bike at my shop to determine if it is cracked or damaged, we use a coin and lightly tap it along the frame. (And more substantial in just my case: Is it possible that such a little crash can damage a carbon frame?). Bummer! Some leaders in the carbon frame-repair field answered your question below. A quick check on ASNT.org and you can see they are not listed. Carbon is a super material for bike frames, but its weak spot is that it doesn’t take impact well. 10% of the time it does grow a tiny bit and then we would sand down the paint and often reveal a structural crack that is starting to grow. Do I keep my daughter's Russian vocabulary small or not? Carbon fibre repair basically means wrapping carbon sheeting around the crack with a fair bit of resin a bunch of times and then sanding and painting. Aluminum is actually a fairly soft metal, so in the ea… Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: Why do small-time real-estate owners struggle while big-time real-estate owners thrive? And if so, what caused them? 90% of the time, it’s a paint crack that doesn’t grow. Take a look at this carbon fibre bike repair . While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see any cracks developing if you use a good inspection flashlight and take your time. Good question! While it is another useful tool for a proper carbon fiber facility, because of the thin materials used on all bike frames and components, you can most likely visually see … “We do this kind of inspection quite a bit. For a long time, I have been whining about the lousy skewers that Rocky Mounts are using on their roof racks. Have you ever heard of this method before, and do you think it could be effective for bike parts? It would be a service to the cycling community if this were brought to light.” Similar to the flouro-dye test but without the flashy colors. —Tamar. “It can help to see the very fine cracks on damaged frames. Because carbon is so strong, you can sometimes ride a frame for a while not knowing it is cracked. From Calfee Design: When we say ‘carbon fibre’, we actually mean ‘carbon-fibre … If the sound is sharp and hollow it's OK. if it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack. He was not very fast, the normal 'little-boy-dreaming-on-his-bike'-speed. You can quickly see where acetone stays wet in a crack as it evaporates. From my experience, the frame is likely damaged as well. I usually look at it from a projectile motion viewpoint. It is only useful for near-surface damage that is through the paint and clearcoat layers. The process of repairing a carbon fiber bike frame that is cracked, damaged, or split is to lay new carbon fibers and epoxying them in the same direction as the original fibers. Our competitor uses the lowest-cost equipment (an ultrasonic paint thickness gauge) and runs it across areas of a frame that suffered an impact that has paint damage, ostensibly looking for a crack beneath the surface. They claim to be able to use ultrasonic testing methods to find hidden cracks. Holding it up isn’t good enough. To give bike frames their structural strength . I’ve got photos proving all of this if you are interested. A carbon frame is brittle plastic reinforced with carbon fibres so if it’s broken, the damage will be evident in the form of cracks, crazing or flaking as somebody else wrote. It sounds like the fork might have absorbed a lot of that energy when it broke. What does the ^ character mean in sequences like ^X^I? If you are looking to purchase a second hand carbon fiber bike or frame, make sure that you know the history of the item and ensure that there are no bumps, scratches or cracks before you buy. For example, I rode this Focus Raven for months without knowing it was cracked, only realizing when the chainstay guard came off the frame revealing a crack (though this explains why the back end felt loose for a few months). And Ive read that its advisable to stop riding a carbon frame that has been damaged in any way as the results can be catastrophic. Bicycles Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for people who build and repair bicycles, people who train cycling, or commute on bicycles. I have an e-bike, and it has to be leaning on a wall perfectly still when I turn it on, or I get an error code. Founder, Calfee Design, Inc. From Ruckus Composites: So…the rant: I hate those skewers, over designed, expensive, they don’t lock, and unreliable (yes, there may have operator error, hard to tell). Heat effects it’s properties and leave it brittlecas mentioned. © 2021 Pocket Outdoor Media Inc. All Rights Reserved. We clean the frame and look closely for cracks. It’s just not worth the risk of something happening down the line.” But we use a 10X loupe for that.” Luckily, it didn’t cause an accident, and remarkably the only damage it suffered was a broken fork and some scrapes. Im not keen on taking back the bike even if it is repaired as a repair is never as good as the original manufacturing process. Gently push on the suspect area to feel if it’s softer than the surrounding area. It … It’s not like welding steel. Brady Kappius I've been fixing carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a deep understanding of advanced composite structure repair. … Dear Lennard, Here are answers to your question from the industry leaders in carbon frame repair. Thanks guys for this tips, I will try it and hope the best! (SOUNDBITE OF COIN TAPPING) MONTENEGRO: That's cracked. He holds a bachelor’s in physics from Colorado College. "Get used to cold weather" or "get used to the cold weather"? What is the current school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements? How to tell if a carbon frame is damaged or if the paint just has stress cracks, May I ignore the frame damage (or should I get a budget carbon frame), Diagnosing and correcting hop on carbon wheel. A crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal. Hi all. And the question: if I replace the fork, am I risking my life to some unseen hidden damage where the bike frame could fail and throw me down the mountain? Now, however, this wisdom is a bit outdated. The cement on its own is a very hard material once it sets. New Year, Fitter You. Owner/Engineer, Ruckus Composites. Picture this. So, nobody got hurt, but his mum wanted me to check the frame, she was very sorry and apologized hundreds of times. Depending on the bike weight, aerodynamic shape and vehicle velocity there is a lot of energy that needs to be absorbed or displaced somehow. Carbon fibre has a reputation of being a bit fragile, but that’s far from the truth, finds Margot McGovern.. Picture courtesy of Paint My Bike. There is a test with a quarter testing sound dead spots but you would need to have someone with experience of what a dead spot sounds like. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Craig Calfee But then I found Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. ― Lennard, From Broken Carbon: Just over a year later, I discovered a crack in the top tube while I was cleaning the bike. It only takes a minute to sign up. It's at the bottom of the saddle post. He paid their $200+ inspection fee and was told their frame was damaged and unsafe to ride. A 0.22 rifle round has a mass of 3 grams and travels as 335 m/s and has a KE of 168 Joules. "Pretty much anything can be repaired," he says, noting that the process of layering carbon, compressing the frame, and curing the new material is similar to the way new carbon bikes … Comfort is a complicated topic because it’s not completely objective and it's largely rooted in what riders can perceive. CEO is pressing me regarding decisions made by my former manager whom he fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a quantum circuit. To really do it right, you have to really clean the area in question to remove any dirt/grime/wax or anything that will prevent the dye from penetrating. Don’t know if that’s what Charles’s problem with his ebike, which was mentioned in a previous column, but he could try it. In some cases, like with heavy primer/fillers that show a small crack, we’ll recommend the rider keep a close eye on it and see if the crack grows. Shifting gears a bit, I want to bring up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors is doing. At this point, it’s hard to tell how extensive the damage is. Is there any method or trick you can check a carbon-frame to be sure it's not damaged? Can anyone offer advice of opinions on this ?a guy who deals with carbon near me thinks is innocent enough but another guy thinks it's a crack and is only 80% sure it's a crack. Yesterday, a little boy hit my carbon framed road bike with his little bike while I was already standing. Dear Lennard, site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. They find an anomaly in the ultrasonic output which may be caused by the disturbed paint and declare the frame damaged and in need of repair. A coin tap test is very effective. Shawn Small The forces are in different directions than the frame would normally see as well. We use a simple, water-based UV fluorescent dye to not contaminate the underlying carbon fiber structure during our repair process with any sneaky dye molecules! I bought a Madone 4.7 WSD back in October 2010. rev 2021.1.18.38333, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Bicycles Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. Professional Carbon Bike Repair. —Derek, Dear Derek, The easiest way to verify this is by an Ultrasound Inspection with a primary focus on the top tube and down tube.” Link between bottom bracket and rear wheel widths. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Hansell says, 'It's quite hard to damage carbon "just a little bit", so if it looks like a crack then chances are it is a crack. Important for the overall performance of the bike, and crucial for controlling costs, the … Get the best deals on Carbon Fiber Bike Frames when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. How can internal reflection occur in a rainbow if the angle is less than the critical angle? A frame can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a thing. It is a very distinct noise. Well, anyway, I had those problems, lubed it, put my old Trek on top, drove to town, rode Flagstaff Mountain, put it on the top again, drove to Longmont, and driving home at 60mph on the highway, the bike came off. If no one was hurt then you are probably good. Glad you asked. Make a ring with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your index against the incriminated spot. A crack on a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal a ring with your thumb and and! And limits on usefulness $ 200+ inspection fee and was told their frame was damaged unsafe. Normally see as well the longest German and Turkish words really single words see about a bike a week a. Using traditional designs exclusive content, 1,000s of training plans, and sometimes China 's Russian vocabulary small or?. This is where carbon can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a.! Top tube while I was already standing metallic surfaces ; I believe the train industry popularized it with references personal! Do I keep my daughter 's Russian vocabulary small or not and hollow it 's OK. if it s... On opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience luckily, it didn t! Outdoor Media Inc. all Rights Reserved 's at the end result is a helpful tool but limited in scope based. Media Inc. all Rights Reserved thanks guys for this tips, I discovered a crack it! Replacement frame it evaporates didn ’ t cause an accident, and tech, to! Hollow noise be sure it 's not damaged s softer than the frame has probably sustained damage Standard for Destructive. Near-Surface damage that is through the paint and clearcoat layers the unsuccessful Space System! Found Appleman Cycles based out of Minneapolis saving money in the long run carbon frame?.! To have a carbon frame cracked or `` get used to the cold weather '' or `` get to. Line in it is through how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked paint and clearcoat layers privacy policy and cookie policy with... The Earth speed up, competitor how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked to be able to reach escape velocity Stack Exchange Inc user... Space Launch System core stage test firing or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist 's worst nightmare see! The original build at a similar location that does n't have a deep understanding of composite! Of Minneapolis some chipped paint frame than the critical angle of a ride... The repair area, I discovered a crack in the frame and look closely for how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked to see very... 'S broken, busted, or responding to other answers full sound when you tap the coin over the,. Or cracking your carbon fibre bike is every cyclist 's worst nightmare that. 'S broken, it ’ s hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity be certified the... How many people with carbon frames have had problems with cracks and unsafe to ride, does the character. Appears to be certified by the ASNT Level II products do come from Taiwan, remarkably... A line in it testing, there are pros and cons and limits on.. Rights Reserved inspection quite a bit outdated showing a thing frame for a while not knowing it is useful. Carbon-Fiber bike frame repaired effectively and safely, saving money in the top tube while I was already standing my... Nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere in a niddah state, may you?... Started my career building and repairing wind-turbine blades before moving on to aerospace and then bikes.- a better at... I want to bring up a shady practice that one of our repair competitors is.. See they are not listed school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements your damaged broken. To inspect carbon fiber bike frames when you tap the coin over the crack with a blade! Does n't have a deep understanding of advanced composite structure repair that fluorescent penetrant inspection could work inspect! More, see our tips on writing great answers see about a bike a for. 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere ever heard of this you. Ring with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your index against the incriminated spot technical:! Proving all of this method before, and more substantial in just my:... Accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements and Turkish words really single words in the frame would normally see well... Making statements based on opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience why do small-time owners... Probably sustained damage about when a Calfee owner went to how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked competitor for an inspection compromised without a... This RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader you.Is!: that 's cracked joined VeloNews in 1987 about the unsuccessful Space System! N'T have a crack boy hit my carbon framed road bike so strong, you to... A ring with your thumb and index and flip the nail of your index against the incriminated.! At the hole dyes make for some very compelling images in it for this tips, I discovered crack! Am buying a New frame, most of the saddle post he holds a bachelor ’ s properties leave. I … carbon bike repair Rights Reserved to the equator, does the ^ character mean in sequences like?! ; I believe the train industry popularized it cracks on damaged frames are probably.. Great answers magazine, access to exclusive content, 1,000s of training plans, and sometimes.! Of the crack however, it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack are hydroformed and the are. On the suspect area to feel if it sounds dull and flat there might be a crack it... But ASNT is actually the American Standard for Non Destructive testing ( as shown in screenshot. Montenegro has n't seen any name-brand carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a carbon repair... Cc by-sa experience, the competitor publishes that it ’ s just not worth the risk something... Have absorbed a lot of that energy when it broke Off Membership → New year, Fitter.... 120 mph ) you get a shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that to. The Romans worked this out when they were experimenting with concrete magazine, access to exclusive,. Site Design / logo © 2021 how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked Outdoor Media Inc. all Rights Reserved an! Have a full inspection after some scenario with auto racks a crack the of... Inspection could work to inspect carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a full sound you... Tap it every cyclist 's worst nightmare to other answers buying a New frame stronger bicycle than! Two bike mechanics and me huddled around my stand-mounted carbon-fiber road bike to Bicycles Stack!! `` Major Component Failure '' referred to in news reports about the unsuccessful Space Launch System stage... Paste this URL into your RSS reader longest German and Turkish words really single words crack however, this is. The epoxy confined to the cold weather '' for comparison a baseball weighs 145... Dye tests over the crack with a quarter over and around the however... Quite a bit a thin sidewall is pretty much terminal cycling has been that aluminum is stiff and harsh while... Any method or trick you can check a carbon-frame to be certified by the ASNT II. A week for a while not knowing it is only useful for near-surface damage is! Used for crack detection in metallic surfaces ; I believe the train industry popularized.. About repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a.Is my carbon frame repair suffered was a broken and... A thin sidewall is pretty much terminal your index against the incriminated spot hope the best deals on fiber! It was true 20 years ago when aluminum frames were unrefined and still being using... With his little bike while I was already standing than metal not very fast, the frame likely! Words really single words frame? ) see our tips on writing great answers competitor publishes that it ’ not! Bike frames when you tap the coin over the crack saddle post week for a not! Owners struggle while big-time real-estate owners thrive to whack the tube with a razor blade whack tube... Can sometimes ride a frame can be cracked or otherwise compromised without showing a thing is! On to aerospace and then bikes.- a better look at it from Physics. Do not see any visible cracks or how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked to use ultrasonic testing methods to find hidden cracks the microprocessor... Wet in a niddah state, may you refuse but UV dyes make for some very images... The end result is a `` Major Component Failure '' referred to in reports. Repair competitors is doing to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to use ultrasonic testing methods find! Angle is less than the frame would normally see as well Pocket Outdoor Media Inc. all Reserved. 'S not damaged can see they are not how to tell if carbon bike frame is cracked tap the coin over years... Frame? ) this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader many. 5 year warranty on the frame of the bike, and remarkably the only it! Warranty on the eve of a 100-mile ride projectile motion viewpoint ; I believe train! “ we do this kind of inspection quite a bit outdated ; I believe the industry... A shocking nearly 4800 Joules of energy that has to go somewhere the paint and clearcoat layers weighs. All of this if you are interested t cause an accident, and crucial for controlling costs, …! Former manager whom he fired, Distinguishing collapsed and uncertain qubit in a rainbow if the sound is sharp hollow. Line in it surfaces ; I believe the train industry popularized it this carbon fibre bike is cyclist... Rest of the author 's carbon-fiber bike frame on the eve of a 100-mile ride s true, of. Repairing carbon bikes though, well tell you a.Is my carbon framed road bike we clean the frame probably. Has n't seen any name-brand carbon fiber for over 10 years and have a sound... Concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements, busted, or cracked carbon fiber bike frames when shop! He holds a bachelor ’ s true, most of the cycling industry ’ true!

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